Actually, that might be pretty neat combination. Instead of choosing between Wurfgerat for boss or OASW gear for pre-boss you can just equip one of those (as long as DD has innate ASW or sonar equipped). I wonder what multipliers/synergies they have.
Okay, on one hand this is good; there is now some equipment that can be used in the same role/purpose as the WG42 and it is assumed that it will be generally easier to acquire than the WG42.
...on the other hand... Infantry siege weapons as anti-submarine equipment. What?
Look, I get it, not all the gear makes sense at times... but this one ranks near the top of the 'WTF' factor.
AnimeFreak40K wrote: Okay, on one hand this is good; there is now some equipment that can be used in the same role/purpose as the WG42 and it is assumed that it will be generally easier to acquire than the WG42.
...on the other hand... Infantry siege weapons as anti-submarine equipment. What?
Look, I get it, not all the gear makes sense at times... but this one ranks near the top of the 'WTF' factor.
Those 12cm mortars were used as ASW weapons on some ships, not that it was very effective...
Ekel wrote: Actually, that might be pretty neat combination. Instead of choosing between Wurfgerat for boss or OASW gear for pre-boss you can just equip one of those (as long as DD has innate ASW or sonar equipped). I wonder what multipliers/synergies they have.
AnimeFreak40K wrote: Okay, on one hand this is good; there is now some equipment that can be used in the same role/purpose as the WG42 and it is assumed that it will be generally easier to acquire than the WG42.
...on the other hand... Infantry siege weapons as anti-submarine equipment. What?
Look, I get it, not all the gear makes sense at times... but this one ranks near the top of the 'WTF' factor.
Well, yes and no. Or rather no and yes.
There's a bit of historical rationale behind it - and theory is somewhat sound - fast sinking, contact-fuzed projectile even as small as 120mm could sink a sub. After all, Hedgehog is basically an ASDIC triggered bunch of spigot mortars working exactly on this principle. But that's theory. Hedgehog was automated and launched a whole pattern of projectiles at the same time. Manually targetted mortar would have neither accuracy nor density of fire neccessary to have any chance of hitting submarine, unless it was surfaced. That +3 ASW stat is very optimistic.
But mortars (and other artillery) were historically used as ASW weapons (usually as shore batteries), though as far as I know without any significant success.
NightJetGum wrote: Those 12cm mortars were used as ASW weapons on some ships, not that it was very effective...
...yeah, I did some looking and there were ASW mortars, but they were designed with that specific purpose in mind and the concept was later used to develop the Hedgehog.
But the British (who were the first ones to start doing this) found their efectivness...limited.
Edit:
Ekel wrote:
Well, yes and no. Or rather no and yes.
There's a bit of historical rationale behind it - and theory is somewhat sound - fast sinking, contact-fuzed projectile even as small as 120mm could sink a sub. After all, Hedgehog is basically an ASDIC triggered bunch of spigot mortars working exactly on this principle. But that's theory. Hedgehog was automated and launched a whole pattern of projectiles at the same time. Manually targetted mortar would have neither accuracy nor density of fire neccessary to have any chance of hitting submarine, unless it was surfaced. That +3 ASW stat is very optimistic.
But mortars (and other artillery) were historically used as ASW weapons (usually as shore batteries), though as far as I know without any significant success.
That's kind of my point.
I did do a bit of research and I found that the concept of mortars were the basis for the Hedgehog. Yes, they work off of the same principale in launching and detonation (contact-fuse), but land-bsed mortars are, by their nature, innaccurate. Even when you have a spotter and a static target (such as a bunker or other emplacement), 'almost' is very much in the realm of 'good enough'.
Trying to use land-based artillery against a submarine is, in my mind, akin to using a hammer to drive a screw into a block of wood. Yeah, if you hit the screw hard enough, it's going to go in there...but it's not the right tool for the job.
Edit 2:
...and thinking about it, I recall another piece of equipment added, the 20-tube 7 Inch UP rockets. Stat-wise, those things are pretty good in game, but in actual practice they were terrible...
Meanwhile WG42s still aren't craftable and U-511 hasn't been a drop in years. If these rewards are an indication of more super Installation boss setup bullshit for the next event, then I sincerely hope there will be a few WG42 quest or early map rewards during the event.
inb4 Hoppou, Homouto and Lolisub trio boss comp to cutely ruin both one's day and one's event.
I'm curious what kind of synergy bonus of these equipment provide. We'll just have to wait and see some of the player's testing result of these new equipment.
DC23A wrote:
Meanwhile WG42s still aren't craftable and U-511 hasn't been a drop in years. If these rewards are an indication of more super Installation boss setup bullshit for the next event, then I sincerely hope there will be a few WG42 quest or early map rewards during the event.
inb4 Hoppou, Homouto and Lolisub trio boss comp to cutely ruin both one's day and one's event.
But they appeared multiple times as event / limited-time quest rewards (even as a christmas present!). I never got U-511 or any ranking rewards, but I have 4 WG42s.
On the contrary, I think this is how they're gonna phase WG42 from everyone's memory.
Mortards and AG Rockets as rewards are more likely.
Or make people drool over them even more if they synergise with the Tankhatsu + KaMi Tank + WG42 combo. If the T4 Rocket Launcher adds a further multiplier to that damage calculation, we are going to see obscene numbers against Installation bosses from four-slot ships that can carry all of them, especially when incorporated into one of the Touch type special attacks.
I'm seconding the quest rewards sentiment, but it's probably going to be some "Sortie 4 DDs and 2 DEs to 5-5. Perfect S-rank the Boss node twice" tier shit. They always make us sweat blood for this rare stuff.
DC23A wrote:
Or make people drool over them even more if they synergise with the Tankhatsu + KaMi Tank + WG42 combo. If the T4 Rocket Launcher adds a further multiplier to that damage calculation, we are going to see obscene numbers against Installation bosses from four-slot ships that can carry all of them, especially when incorporated into one of the Touch type special attacks.
That only happens if the multiplier exceeds 2nd WG42 bonus, 11th Tank Regiment's, or if it's just pre-cap like usual.
The way they could make it more desireable is if they let them be in EX-slot, or perform -something else- apart from increasing damage.
That only happens if the multiplier exceeds 2nd WG42 bonus, 11th Tank Regiment's, or if it's just pre-cap like usual.
The way they could make it more desireable is if they let them be in EX-slot, or perform -something else- apart from increasing damage.
This sort of gear in EX would be too OP, but I like the idea of bonuses with other equipment, seeing as how they just keep buffing Boss armours. Main Guns + T4 Rocket Launcher bonus would be nice because then you can use it with a T9 or a Sanshiki on Battleships; sacrificing Artillery Spotting on 4 slot BBs.
Some kaibokans had 81cm mortars, and some transport ships had obsolete artillery pieces with ASW ammo (see AnimeFreak40K and me above why that didn't really worked), but not 120mm mortars or Type 4 rockets. Maybe some patrol crafts or river monitors had mortars as supplementary weapons, but that's it as far as mortars are concerned.
Artillery rockets were too few and too late in war to find serious naval application. They are suited best for supporting landing operations, and late in war Japanese were on the defensive and didn't really had opportunity to unleash rocket artillery barrages. Besides that wouldn't be much of barrage - I've seen number 500 for total production of Naval Type 4 rockets floating around. Not launchers, mind you, just ammo for them. For comparison single LCT(R) could carry upwards 1000 of RP-3, and allies had dozens of them.
But since we are deep into alternative history anyway, those make sense as weapons of choice for pushing against Abyssal land installations.
But since we are deep into alternative history anyway, those make sense as weapons of choice for pushing against Abyssal land installations.
In theory, I can see any ship with a (relatively) shallow draft (likely a Destroyer or Kaiboukan), having a bunch of these on-hand that could be placed on the ship's deck and used to support a land-invasion; a tactic that would not be unlike having artillery support for infantry forces as they push towards an objective.
This would, again, in theory, be more effective than relying on the ship's guns because there would be more of them (120mm mortar launchers are not necesasrily man-portable, but they aren't that big either) and each one could fire far more frequently.
But again, this is all theory and, well, the way I see it, we're so far into alternative history that we may as well just abandon the idea and embrace the fact that it's a setting that uses WWII designs on stuff because they look cool.
Not that there's anything wrong with this mind you, there are multiple titles (both anime and video game) that do this exact thing.
This sort of gear in EX would be too OP, but I like the idea of bonuses with other equipment, seeing as how they just keep buffing Boss armours. Main Guns + T4 Rocket Launcher bonus would be nice because then you can use it with a T9 or a Sanshiki on Battleships; sacrificing Artillery Spotting on 4 slot BBs.
I got a crazy idea that Tanaka will never do.
- Allows mortars and AG rockets to be used as main gun substitute against installations and only installations.
- This means they'll need two of mortars/AG rockets to deal nighttime double-tap with increased damage bonus vs. installation only. Bonus depends on the mortar/AG rockets equipment setup (separate from existing anti-installation bonus).
- Normal gun + mortar/AG rocket is also a fair game, less damage bonus ofc.
- Allows mortars and AG rockets to be used as main gun substitute against installations and only installations.
- This means they'll need two of mortars/AG rockets to deal nighttime double-tap with increased damage bonus vs. installation only. Bonus depends on the mortar/AG rockets equipment setup (separate from existing anti-installation bonus).
- Normal gun + mortar/AG rocket is also a fair game, less damage bonus ofc.
You mean like have those ships with the gear on specifically attack Installations like DDs and CLs are forced to attack Submarines? This would be so nice for Battleships who would then be forced to attack Bosses or Installation escort units instead of the trash mobs. It sucks when BBs and CAs fitted with anti-Installation gear attack the weak ones instead of the ones they're supposed to.
But, you're right. Tanaka will never allow this. It would make things too easy on event maps where you just have to sink the Boss to clear the map.
In that case they may as well add Monitors, terrible stats and accuracy against surface ships, but a much higher percentage chance to target land installations.
Tenryuuko wrote: I read that these are ASW and... anti-installation equips? Then what? Installation bosses escorted by subs?
we're gonna assualt a Submarine pen? :V
I wouldn't be surprised if we are. After all, we are going to Europe for the next event. Gods, hope U-511 does become a decent drop for that first map or those newbies are really going to suffer.
